Hi, all!
I'm not sure what's happened to Norma, but since she hasn't posted her topic, I'm going to put something up here so you can start discussing and get your posts in.
So, my question for you this week is whether or not you think coming of age can ever be a bad thing. Is there something to be said for never growing up? Are there drawbacks to moving from innocence to experience, ignorance to knowledge? What are some of them and have you personally experienced them? Is this movement toward coming of age worth it, though? Why or why not?
You don't have to answer every question...but you could break your responses up into two parts/posts if you want (and earn a point per post for those of you who need to get your participation in--hint, hint!).
I definitely think that there is something idealized and romantic about never growing up, kind of a Peter Pan type attitude. As we have discussed in class, there is nothing quite like romping through the fields with your friends. Yes, we can still romp after we grow up, but the weight of responsibility changes people. Concern about school, a job, financial worries, stress, drama within relationships- all of that takes a toll on that carefree attitude of childhood. In my own experience, i wouldn't necessary pin my coming of age as bad per se, just bittersweet. A huge turning point was when my family moved from the big ranch house in the mountains into Albuquerque, a move that is kind of symbolic of my move from barn poking to stressing about school and having a lot of familial conflict. I do think that though responsibility changes people, the experiences you get to have as an adult make it worth it.
ReplyDeleteThe link reminded me of how in class we mentioned that we tend to trivialize the experiences of children. I was initially going to respond something along the lines of its easier to be happy with innocence and inexperience. I keep remembering how easy high school was for me, particularly emotionally. I forgot how hard elementary school was. I was pretty gullible in elementary school and tended to pick friends who bullied me around. By middle school I learned how to pick my friends better though. The positive of that knowledge is that I have trouble with my friends way less, but the knowledge is also unfortunate in that I learned there are also some people who don't really want to be my friend or who shouldn't be at the very least.
ReplyDeleteEven though the movement towards coming of age isn't all good, it is still necessary I think. To most people, being independent and having more free will is important. I don't think it is possible to remain innocent of all the problems the world faces and still be able to safely and successfully navigate the world alone. Innocence is great while it lasts, but eventually the dependence on a protector and a guide (parents) will be gone and the skills to navigate independently must be present.
ReplyDelete-Danyelle W.
I think coming of age can come because of a negative experience, but I don't think that necessarily means coming of age is a negative thing. Like Alex was saying, when you're an adult you have stress about a job, financial situations, etc. Some people have trouble letting go of the fact that they are grown up and want to be little again, so they think growing up just sucks. Everyone has to grow up at some point, I think what makes it negative or positive is whether or not you choose to look fondly on the past or wish you were presently there.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that the coming of age experience is really ever a bad thing. It's a journey from innocence and the carefree attitude of a child to a knowledgable and responsible adult. Most everyone thinks fondly on their childhood. Sure life was carefree as a child, but as an adult there are many more new and exciting opportunities and experiences awaiting out in the world.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Alex about the Peter Pan lifestyle, there is something spectacular about being a naïve child forever. Most children are so optimistic, and it’s that childish optimism that makes life so great. I wouldn’t describe kids as worry-free, like we discussed in class they do have their own issues, no matter how trivial they may seem to an adult, they are very real to the child; but it’s the optimism that makes life bliss. If it were possible to grow up into a knowable, responsible, well-rounded adult and still maintain that optimism, life could be just as blissful as it was when you were poking barns. But unfortunately, what we experience on our way to adulthood, those coming of age moments that mold us are what diminishes that optimism. So yes, there is something to be said for never growing up, in the emotional sense it would probably be wonderful. But by the nature life, it is impossible.
ReplyDeleteThough I do believe remaining unwaveringly optimistic would be amazing, I also think the perks of adult are worth the coming of age struggles and the loss of optimism. Just to clarify, I’m not saying that every adult is a cynical, negative Nancy, but the knowledge we have as adults makes it much more difficult to be without at least a little bit of doubt (by the way, that totally rhymes). As adults we clearly have more responsibility (which kind of sucks), but I find it comforting and empowering to know that I’m perfectly capable of taking care of myself (a plus). As children our emotions don’t run as deep, your emotional spectrum grows with you; the more pain you experience, the more happiness you’ll be capable of feeling (that’s my theory at least). And as we grow with those around us, our siblings, lovers, friends, etc. our relationships, if they survive the hard parts, are that much stronger in adulthood. Basically what I’m trying to say is childhood is a wonderful, blissful phase of life, but adulthood can be just as good, if not better, but for different reasons. So yes, coming of age is worth it.
ReplyDeleteComing of age is absolutely negative. A person loses their view of the world and undergoes a horrifying paradigm shift every time, and their innocence is taken. However, the loss of innocence isn't a problem for the person losing it- it's a problem for the people observing that personality shift. The transition gives a feeling of loss, no matter how positive the effects of the maturation may be. The fact is that there are going to be positive and negative aspects of any coming of age process, and this is entirely dependent on how you are looking at it.
ReplyDeleteIs it a loss? Yes sure you're losing some of your "innocence" but you gain much more. I think a large part of coming of age is coming to terms with all the loss of Innocence and understanding what that means to you. It's all a part in the development of who you will become.
ReplyDeleteSome sort of revelation usually accompanies coming of age experiences. When we experience a rite of passage, our perception of certain things is altered in some way and we see things in a new light. In some cases, this new viewpoint comes with cynical realizations of life in general. We all realize at some point that our parents aren’t the nicest, most caring people in the world and when we do there’s a lot of negative feelings that come along with it. Even though growing up is an inevitable and necessary thing that happens, it’s never a simple joyride.
ReplyDeleteAs for not growing up, or failing to come of age, that’s a whole ‘nother story. We’ve all seen Peter Pan, no one wants to be like that tights-wearing brat with a robin hood hat. I mean sure, its nice to imagine living in a tree house and doing whatever you want all day but I for one am not up for dealing with puberty my whole life. But seriously, when someone remains immature (and by extension, ignorant) they’re prone to a lot of risks. For example, a man-child who blindly trusts everyone is probably going to lose his weekly allowance pretty quickly. Keeping our innocence would be nice, but the price we’d pay for it doesn’t quite make it worth it… Unless we lived in a tree house in Neverland… who am I kidding I wish I was Peter Pan :(
ReplyDeleteOf course there's a price to pay when going from innocence to experience. Innocence is something we all yearn for at one time or another. The thing is, eternal innocence an impossible concept to grasp. We can only know innocence because we lost it, and while we can all be cynical at times, saying "oh how good it would be to be five again", there is really much more to appreciate once we've lost our innocence. But again, if you're innocent, would you ever realize that? Ignorance is bliss after all.
ReplyDeleteI love what Kevin said about having more to appreciate once we've lost our innocence. I think, as everyone has basically agreed on, that we can pinpoint both benefits and yet losses present in a coming of age process. What seems to differ between seeing coming of age as a loss and coming of age as bittersweet is the attitude that we have about it. If we spend our whole lives thinking about "the good ol days" and all that we miss about childhood, we will fail to see that we gained knowledge and good experiences.
ReplyDeleteI don't think seeing someone observing the personality shift is a bad thing. Sure, parents don't like seeing their baby growing up, but they don't sit there and go "dammit, my kid is all grown up, this sucks." I think some people enjoy seeing people come of age. I know there are plenty of people who see someone doing an immature thing and tell them to grow up and act there age.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kevin and the whole ignorance is bliss statement. As kids we are happy with the small things like candy and cartoons but when we reach adulthood we can find hobbies and friends that specifically fit or click with us as a person. We can reminisce about sword fighting with some of our long lost childhood friends but at the end of the day your new friends will have a better understanding of the current you and knows your true character more in depth than any long lost playground partner. While we do lose some of the trivial things that made us happy as children, I feel that gaining the opportunity to find yourself makes it a worthwhile trade-off.
ReplyDeleteThroughout high school I couldn't help but look forward to being on my own in college. No parental supervision and no curfew sounded great! Now that I am on my own I enjoy going home and staying home which was very rare during my high school years. There are some drawbacks to growing up, I see that now that I am on my own. I wish that I had not been so focused on growing up and instead would have enjoyed my youth. But as to never growing up? I think I would feel myself wanting more than leading a child's life forever.
ReplyDeleteI don't know, I think I disagree with what most people are saying. Flowers for Algernon touched a bit on the subject of growing up innocent, and really, as much as we feel sorry for the Charlie we knew before the operation, he seemed pretty content with his way of life. He did not want knowledge and experience because he valued them, he wanted them because other people had them. This indicates that growing up innocent, while approachable, is still unattainable, an ideal. But if the thirst for knowledge and experience hadn't been there to tempt him, who are we to say that being innocent wouldn't be better? This is probably why the novel likes referring to the scene from the garden of Eden so much. Innocence seemed like paradise. In the end, we can't draw a proper comparison between complete innocence and experience without having experienced both.
ReplyDeletetl;dr
I'm a cynical jerk. D: